Home/homeschooling management advice (long!)

Last May, I went to a Catholic homeschooling conference in our area. A mom I've known for about eight years volunteered to be on a panel of "experienced" moms, and had such a positive response that she opened up her house to mommies with questions about every gosh darned thing you can imagine in a homeschooling family, or heck, just a family. We had quite a turn out. I was one of two vans who carted people from my town to theirs for the evening, and that was fun in itself!

After the meeting, Robin took down questions and started compiling answers. The following is the email we received if we wanted to be on her mailing list. It may not be well organized, but the notes are there, take whatever you can get from it. Robin and David are parents of 11 children, two in heaven, and one on the way about a month before me. She's the first to say she's learned a lot by not listening to hints from God the first time. It was a delight to hear her stories and visit her home. While none of us should strive to BE her, she's well worth learning from. The reason I say that, is that we should all learn to be OURSELVES. As God intended.

Here are the notes, before I lose them!

Dear interested J

I have been working on the questions that some of you have posed. I was going ot wait and send one doc. When it was complete but it is taking me longer than I planned. I thought I would send to you the questions as a comlete a few at a time and then I will send to you the doc in its entirety. I realized it might be easier to also read a few questions at a time then receiving a longer document.



I am not focusing on grammar or order as much as I am getting my thoughts onto paper for you; excuse the lack of quality there and do let me know if you have any questions.

Prayers for you and yours as you prepare for the coming year.

Please pray for me and for my family!

Robin







Homeschooling questions

Some of the main questions posed included:


These questions were submitted to me either via email or via the meetings:



1. I have a 13 year old son and 10 year old daughter. I switched to Saxon Math from Modern Curriculum Press when my son was in 4th grade, and it's worked very well for us so far. My son just finished Saxon 8/7. I have heard from two or three people not to use Saxon for Algebra. I was wondering if others share this opinion, and if so, what your recommendations for Algebra are. I will appreciate any advice you can share.

Reply from robin betz:

My experience has been this; to pick a program and to stick with it. We follow MODG as much to the’t’ as we are able for all practical purposes. I would definitely sway from this if I felt a need; thus far, except for this year, I have never felt that need. (This year we are having our son who was in the accident do 'teaching text books' for algebra II instead of Saxon ONLY because he was only 2/3 of the way through the book when the accident happened. After he recovered enough to study a bit, we did NOT want to overwhelm him /punish him and have SO much school left for the duration of the summer or to add to his next year. So, we let him do the bare basics, which was up through lesson??? And then told him he could be finished. That being said, Teaching Text books is far less rigorous and has an easier program to follow so we rectified the situation by having him use TT this year for Algebra II. Make sense?) So, this is our 'formula for math':

-we do ABeka work books up through 3rd grade math ( I say this cuz most of my kids do abekka 3 in 2nd grade, so adjust this according to the grade your child would be doing it in, the point is the order I do it in and the general age)

- Then starting in 4th grade level, we switch to Saxon, (which for my kids is usually in 3rd grade)

- In 7th grade we DO include Algebra 1/2 (some families skip this. I figure I'd rather have them have a sound /strong concept than to be so far ahead. We can discuss this if this does not make sense).

-We do alg 1/2, alg 1 then, Jacobs Geometry (I sign the kids up for the chat class via MODG for Geometry; we've had two kids without the class and one child has taken the class. We felt the class was worth the time and money; they use a ‘white board’ on their computers and meet 2x a week. It feels good to have MODG as the 'moderator' for this class. I still work with my kids about 2 hours a week when in geometry quizzing them and letting them do a bunch orally.

- Then following Geometry we do Algebra II in 11th leaving 12th grade for any other kind of math class depending on where the student is heading for college.

- keep in mind we also expect the kids to show ALL of their work and to bring their work to me as soon as they are finished. They then make their changes corrections in a timely manner.

- We keep a grading sheet at the front of the binder to make it easy to calculate their grades.

-BUT, let me add, we DO purchase the DIVE cd's that go with the Saxon work. Our formula for daily lessons is this:

Students do ALL the practice problems. They do half of the lesson, one day 1-15, and the next day 16-30 of the NEXT lesson. If they seem to have trouble then I might ask them to do the remainder of a lesson. If they are struggling I first ask, 'did you read the chapter?", then I ask, 'did you watch the DIVE?" thus far, if my child does all of this, we're left with little to no issues.

Let me show you an example in case this is foggy;

Monday lesson 1 all practice and problems 1-15

Tues lesson 2 all practice problems and problems 16-30

Wed lesson 3: all practice and problems 1-15.





#2

I'm looking for any help organizing my time and schooling with only 'littles'. My children are 6, 4, 2, and 6mos. Especially since #4 was born I feel I can only handle the house or the schooling, never both. Any suggestions on how and when to focus on schooling would be great. I've enjoyed Fly lady and the Large Family Logistics site. I'm also the 3rd oldest of 10 from a homeschooling family so you'd think I'd be able to figure it out, but I'm at a loss as to how to manage it all with children who mostly need me to walk with them every step of the way. Any insites would be great.

Reply from robin betz:



In short, you should only NEED to be schooling about 60-90 minutes a day…is that about what you are doing? If not, let’s discuss that. If you are but you are still feeling overwhelmed, let’s talk about any extras that might need to be altered.

Are you making sure prayers are a priority?

Are you making sure exercise is a priority?

Is marriage a priority?

Are you distracted by the computer or phone or unexpected interruptions?

Is there some sense of order to your day? To your home?

Are there too many things around?

Are there things that are making your life a big mess? i.e.: so many toys that when you finally do school the kids trash the place and the work load is unmanageable?

Are your chores organized so you feel a sense of accomplishment but NOT always working with nothing to show for it?

Let’s start there; just take a minute to consider the above and I bet you’ll be able to hone in on where the issues lie. It will give us a place to start.

3. From looking at your schedule it looks like you have time scheduled each day for your children, is this doable?

Reply from robin betz:



I do have time with my kids each day, this is what I’ve found: about 1 hour a day per child once in school is ideal to plan for and this is why (I’d say more like 90 minutes the first year they are learning to read would be fair to plan for) :

Before the year they are ready to learn to read, which is anywhere from age 4+ to 5+, I just give busy stuff here and there and feed their desires. I work throughout the day on formation, obedience, joy, chores, learning to put things away, doing chores correctly, going to bed and staying there, getting up and getting dressed promptly, learning that what mommy says, mommy means! (Yesterday my 18 month old, as I emphatically told her she must stay on her bed, she pouted back at me ‘Robin, you’re mean!’. I was affirmed more than ever that I was doing the right thing; I lacked NO confidence!

The year they are ready to read until about 3rd grade ,I sit with them and do ALL of their school; basically I get it out of the way, including ; phonics, reading, handwriting, math, religion, and poetry. I’ll combine them with other kids or have other siblings oversee their science, geography, music etc.

4-6th grade I spend about an hour a day ‘going over’ their work, making sure they did it, grading etc. these are the years I have a tendency to let them soar and become very independent, which is good in many ways, but, this can lead them into temptation to lie and cheat as well. It can come along very innocently; when asked if they completed a paper or assignment, a vague ‘yes’ might really mean…’I plan on starting it!” The time I give to this age of child will often be broken up but it is scheduled i.e.; they might go off and do their math and science, bring it to me when it is complete, I will correct it while they work on their worldly wise and Latin. They will STAY there and correct their mistakes in math and science so it is finished for the day, then stay there and complete WW and Latin; ending with me quizzing them in Latin and hearing their poetry. That, all together took probably 30 minutes. They’d then leave to do the rest of their school, coming back to me at a set time to do the same. By the end of the day, they are DONE, we are finished and I know they are on track.

7th – 12th, I sign them up for as much support as we can afford/be part of through MODG. I still save that hour a day to read/go over:

7th grade: grammar and history/religion

8th /9th: check that they are on top of things, read some religion and history with them, correct math, go over papers and essays

10th: quiz them in geometry 3-4 days a week to help them to move along, read over religion and history

11th – 12th: religion and history; check that they are on track, read over papers before they send them into their TA.

So, I have been spending about 8 hours HANDS on with my kids for the last few years and it will be this way for the next decade at least but I’ve had 8 kids actively in school for the last few years. Every time one leaves, at least one more joins the schoolers! J My point is, I think it is safe to say to budget about 5-6 hours a day for hands on schooling if you have 5 kids.



4. It looks like you do summer school, is that true and why?

Reply by robin betz:

As for summer school: for the most part, I find that having them have some sort of schedule is really helpful. I try to evaluate in the spring what we can let go and what we should work on. And, I try to move ahead in some subject I find more challenging so the kids feel ‘ahead’ (and so I do too) so we can slow down later on. Some things, it seems, we can move ahead exponentially if we can just hone in on them. If we do them mixed in with 7 other classes or more, it can feel overwhelming.

And, this fall I am going to have a baby so I felt it would be a good summer to really focus on school. I am paying my daughter carlike to help me!



5. it looks like you have your children read each day, how long do the little ones read?

Reply by robin betz:

As for the amount of time I have the little kids read: when just learning to read, oh, the usual time to get through one reader while reading to me or a sibling. Then, we have a quiet time EACH day for 1-3 hours. It usually goes like this:

First hour (or 45 min.) quiet reading. Usually the school required book

Second hour: playing legos quietly or reading to one another, or finish that early and let them watch a video if they were angelic



Note: My boys do NOT find a passion for reading as early as my girls, but, then when it catches on, I can’t get a book out of their hands. And, they will hide a ‘leisure’ book inside a school book. I have found at about 3rd and 4th grade if you can get them hooked on a series of books i.e.: hardy boys, box car, Betsy Tacy Tibs, then this will go far. This is the age, if they do NOT like to read, to let them read at a lesser level in that they can find the joy in reading. Invest in books that bring their passions out: sports or adventure for boys perhaps, horse books or fantasy ….you know what I mean.





Reply by Meredith Henning:

By not knowing what age your "little ones" are is a bit difficult to answer, but once my children are able to read somewhat fluently on their own (anywhere from 4 - 7 years old) then I have them read aloud to me for about 10 minutes each day (or less, depending on the material). Anyone older than 7 will read for 1/2 hour - 1 hour independently as well as their reading during school/learning hours. This can also happen spontaneously throughout the day. I also make sure the new readers are present at the time when I am reading aloud so they can continue to build their "ear" towards hearing good books read with inflections and proper enunciations, etc.





Reply by Julia Fogassy:

For most of the kids, reading has never been an issue. Once they could read, they read well and often without any prompting. For one of our children, reading did not “happen” until he was nearly ten years old. Even at ten years, it would have been cruel and unusual punishment to require him to read for ten minutes per day. And the other children didn’t need any requirements--so we didn’t have any.



As the children were first learning to read, we did have regular reading time. They read aloud to me from beginning-level books like the Mad and Tab Readers. Depending on the child, it might be ten minutes, or it might be an hour. Some kids could read an entire little book in a few minutes, while others were exhausted after only four pages. Because each child is so different, I think it is necessary to set a pace that matches the child’s ability rather than to think in terms of a set number of minutes each day. For all the children--including the one who did not read until he was age ten--the best motivation was their own personal interest. Once they discovered something that they really wanted to know about or enjoy, they really wanted to read.



6. Meal planning; do I plan out meals, do mega cooking etc?

Reply by robin betz:

Do I plan out my meals each week: yes but sometimes very loosely. The reason I can do this loosely is that I DO have a lot of food stored in the freezer. This is what has transpired and has worked for our family for years. I have frozen soup, burritos, chili, spaghetti sauce, enchiladas, muffins, cookies, in the freezer, so, for a meal, I just warm up a complete dinner and add to it to the best of my ability for that day i.e.: on a busy day, ‘here, enjoy your burrito and carrot sticks, eat up!!” on a slower day, I set out lettuce, salsa sour cream, and guacamole! Make sense? I spend an average of 15 minutes preparing a meal but I’m able to present to my family a nutritious appealing table. We do sit down for 3 meals. I forgo snacks most days; except for me and the older kids! Famished kids will eat anything and a closed kitchen means the kids are doing their school or chores! J



-I rarely MEGA cook in the sense of how some woman do this VERY planned out once a month or every other month.

- I do Mega cook when it seems right, in very large quantities – about 2x a year.

- I ALWAYS ‘mega cook’ in at least large enough quantities for 2-3 meals about 2 times a week.

- Cooking like this can fill your freezer very quickly and it won’t feel so overwhelming on the budget or the body!

- when we do our big mega cook I usually choose 5-7 meals that are faves and are good for that season and we make 6-8 meals of both. I have 8 ‘men’ eating at each meal and 5-7 girls depending on if my daughter is home. Its allot to cook for! I might do this right before school starts and again later winter. I usually spends some time organizing, talk to my husband about money (he always budget an extra $500.00 2 x a year for this but sometimes it gets ‘eaten’ into! Pardon the pun!)

Then I ask him or a few of my teens/tweens to help me to shop and to be ready to help me to manage the food when I get home. Sometimes this means chopping, bagging or frying up beef or cooking off chicken breast.

Then the next day I cook all day ending late in the evening when my husband will help me to put it safely into the freezer. I do things to ‘rush’ the job like making homemade chili but I’ll plan to throw in two big bags of corn to cool it off fast!

-Other than that, I make usually about 2 ‘big’ meals a week

- I make two ‘baked goods’ a week.

- I make at least 2 hardy salads like a chicken salad with a lot of celery, grapes, maybe brown rice to stretch it. Another favorite is a quinoa salad with alto of herbs, veggies and later in the week I might add in some chicken.

- For breakfast we have oatmeal about 4 mornings a week. Other morning we’ll have homemade French fries and homemade turkey meat balls, homemade granola or homemade muffins with a shake of some kind.

- Lunch and dinners are about the same. Usually for about 2 lunches we’ll have left over’s and for dinners, usually about one dinner is left over’s.

-Fridays are almost always tuna or nachos for lunch and a veggie soup or burritos for dinner. We always have a big salad or steamed broccoli w/it.

-we make a lot of homemade protein cookies or muffins packed with nutrition that I often eat 2x a day with a latte or tea.

- by having the homemade muffins and cookies on hand and the home made hearty salads, I can pack a cooler very quickly when we are leaving to go somewhere to make sure we have hearty food, are not tempted to eat out and are not too cranky!!

- I spend money on clear bags and containers. We bag almost all of our meals in gallon bags and label them. Freeze them flat and stack them flat. I purchase the clear single serving or quart containers from cash and carry to package food to go in; these I also use to put left over’s in. by seeing what is in the container I find I save time and waste less. We re-use all of these containers as much a practically speaking.

- I am happy to share more specifics and recipes with you. I have tried to notate the changes I’ve made through the year to accommodate for a large family.

- you should also know that I asked our local grocery store if I could purchase in bulk there and I’d bring all/most of my shopping to them. They were thrilled; they let me purchase anything I want by the case for cost plus 10%. It’s amazing savings. I found a few families to share stuff with me and we have an extra fridge. I.e.: we purchase a huge case of bananas for less than $20.00, if some start to go bad I just freeze them and then we do a mega cook of healthy banana muffs. Ideally one would have compost so you could more easily rid of any waste, but, for now we don’t. In purchasing this way we have a lot of fresh veggies and fruit on hand and we are saving a lot of money. My next goal is to switch to organic.

- I also shop at:

Costco 2x a month: mostly toilet paper, paper things, sour cream, salsa, olive oil, raisins, coffee, rice crackers, carrot juice,

Azure standard 1x a month chips, tea, peanut butter, nuts, quinoa, flax meal, cereals, dried fruit,

Cash and carry every other month: oat meal in the 25# bag but we buy 2 usually, coffee syrups, storage containers both heavy duty for storing grains and the disposable kind.

Shaklee 1 x month: we purchase all of our cleaners, proteins and vitamins, shampoo, face cleansers etc



7. Health issues; dealing with going to doctors and hospital often:

Reply by robin betz

It was a bitter sweet realization how many homeschooler are struggling with this dilemma. On the other hand, homeschooling is truly a blessing when it comes to shuffling it all to fit in all that is required when there is chronic illness to deal with. At the same time, it is most often best to home school all, or have all in traditional school of some kind; that being said having all of the other kids to take care of while running around and caring for the ill child is the real issue!

The financial situation and practical helper situation will be different for each family but the fact is; those of us with medical issues on going in our family need more help of some kind. What kind of help is the question? Always going back to the advice of making prayer and exercise for mom and dad the core of one’s day will enable each family to determine what their needs are. One will also be able to see more clearly what stage you are at; a stage of letting all things go for this is a time of ‘getting by’ or a stage of staying firm in ones plans, sensing that this family needs stability right now.



If you are like me you are constantly being fed from other well meaning homes cool peers, ‘relax, put the books away, there’s time for that later, take care of the family now!” well, with situations like ours that would mean indefinitely. If our child was in a life threatening stage (we’ve been there) we’d do that but for the most part, the routine and the schedule and the consistency of schooling brings about greater peace for all.



We do need to accept that we cannot participate in committed activities like others can, for the most part. It would not be prudent to set up for failure that way; making 2 out of 10 practices or meetings; my gut tells me this world not be profitably or esteem building for anyone. It’s not practical to bring school to the hospital; the expensive and necessary supplies are devoured by the van and the waiting room. A note pad for writing letters, a stack of flash cards or inexpensive readers on the other hand are ideal; so what if you never see them again.



Consider hired help period. I thought we could not afford it until I was on my deathbed. Viola; we found the money. Find it. Budget for it. Pray for it. jump at any opportunity that has possibility i.e.: a gal just came my way in need of money, she has a baby attached, she is a strong catholic and I felt I could talk to her right away; there was a peace. Her baby is attached and her first suggestion of what she’d like to earn per house was over double what I planned to pay her. I continued the dialogue; although it is NOT ideal, there are so many ‘pros’ to this that I’m going to invest in this possibility. If I invest and this does not work out; I’ll trust this is God’s will.



Make plans, lists and schedules that are easy for others to take on while you are away. For example, a huge help for me is when someone else will walk through my kids ‘tick’ lists with them. Their lists include chores, music and other daily responsibilities. I ask the person who has kindly offered to help me out, ‘will you please move through this list, have the child prove to you that they have done these things with integrity. Don’t just ask the child, but have them show you proof!” by my taking the time to write this up, this enables someone else to take my role. Type up expectations for each chore; we have a list of ‘to do’s in the bathroom inside the bathroom cupboard listing my expectations for a clean bathroom. When the child says, ‘I’m supposed to clean the bathroom.’ The helper can use the list as the ‘bad guy’. Too often things get out of whack and we fall behind because so much is done half way when I’m not around. After a long day of caring for a child, going from hospital to clinic, and coming home to piles of laundry and partially accomplished chores; it’s disheartening yet those at home felt they did the best they could with what they had to work with.



Planning and clearly scheduling sets everyone ups for success. Clearly state the consequences for those who do not comply.

Write out a general routine for the day so the helper can follow through to keep stability in the home in this way.

When people offer to bring food, suggest a variety of things include paper goods but exclude dessert; feeding your kids who are yearning for you sugar and letting them indulge in videos on a regular basis is not a gift to anyone in the long run. We must keep in mind this is not a short lived crisis time; this is an ongoing chronic situation and we must adjust our lives accepting that we are chosen, unique and therefore our lives will not be like the friend who does NOT have a child, or children with these needs. Period. Pray for enlightenment, pray for creativity, pray for the wisdom to know what your family really needs.



Maintain the weekly intimate dates and also the ‘business’ time with your husband; you need this NOW more than ever, NOT less. Again, if it was a crisis week that is one thing but for most of us this is ongoing. We need this date and exercise and prayer time more than ever!





25. I have a 13 year old son and 10 year old daughter. I switched to Saxon Math from Modern Curriculum Press when my son was in 4th grade, and it's worked very well for us so far. My son just finished Saxon 8/7. I have heard from two or three people not to use Saxon for Algebra. I was wondering if others share this opinion, and if so, what your recommendations for Algebra are. I will appreciate any advice you can share.



Reply from robin betz:

My experience has been this; to pick a program and to stick with it. We follow MODG as much to the’t’ as we are able for all practical purposes. I would definitely sway from this if I felt a need; thus far, except for this year, I have never felt that need. (This year we are having our son who was in the accident do 'teaching text books' for algebra II instead of Saxon ONLY because he was only 2/3 of the way through the book when the accident happened. After her recovered enough to study a bit, we did NOT want to overwhelm him /punish him and have SO much school left for the duration of the summer or to add to his next year. So, we let him do the bare basics, which was up through lesson??? And then told him he could be finished. That being said, Teaching Text books is far less rigorous and has an easier program to follow so we rectified the situation by having him use TT this year for Algebra II. Make sense?) So, this is our 'formula for math':

-we do ABeka work books up through 3rd grade math (I say this cuz most of my kids do abekka 3 in 2nd grade),

- Then starting in 4th grade level, we switch to Saxon,

- In 7th grade we DO include Algebra 1/2 (some families skip this. I figure I'd rather have them have a sound /strong concept than to be so far ahead. We can discuss this if this does not make sense).

-We do alg 1/2, alg 1 then, Jacobs Geometry ( I sign the kids up for the chat class via MODG; we've had two kids with and 2 kids w/out this. it feels good to have MODG as the 'moderator' for this class. I still work with my kids about 2 hours a week when in geometry quizzing them and letting them do a bunch orally.

- Then following Geometry we do Algebra II in 11th leaving 12th grade for any other kind of math class depending on where the student is heading for college.

- keep in mind we also expect the kids to show ALL of their work and to bring their work to me as soon as they are finished. They then make their changes corrections in a timely manner.

- We keep a grading sheet at the front of the binder to make it easy to calculate their grades.

-BUT, let me add, we DO purchase the DIVE cd's that go with the Saxon work. Our formula for daily lessons is this:

Students to ALL the practice problems. They do half of the lesson, one day 1-15, and the next day 16-30 of the NEXT lesson. If they seem to have trouble then I might ask them to do the remainder of a lesson. If they are struggling I first ask, 'did you read the chapter?", then I ask, 'did you watch the DIVE?" thus far, if my child does all of this, we're left with little to no issues.

Let me show you an example in case this is foggy;

Monday lesson 1 all practice and problems 1-15

Tues lesson 2 all practice problems and problems 16-30

Wed lesson 3: all practice and problems 1-15.



26. First of all, you mentioned that you include Algebra 1/2 in 7th grade. Does this mean in addition to Math 8/7? My son just finished 7th grade and we used Math 8/7. Would you recommend doing Algebra 1/2 in 8th grade or go right to Algebra 1? Please bear in mind that he does not like math at all, so even though he does fairly well, it's a struggle for him.



Reply from robin betz:

As for doing algebra 1/2 in 7th grade, NO, NOT in addition, I had mentioned earlier that my kids usually start abbeka 3 in 2nd, then Saxon 5/4 in 3rd, and so on; hence, by 7th grade they are ready for algebra 1/2. (4tth grade they are in 6/5, 5th grade they are in 7/6, 6h grade they are in 8/7, 7th grade they are in alga 1/2.) I think once we strayed from this but the most important point I was trying to make was the order of what we did, namely, INCLUDING algebra 1/2, whereas some families choose to opt out. Perhaps if you KNEW your child was headed for advanced math, if you or your husband were math whizzes, then I could see moving at a faster pace, otherwise, I recommend going slower. You don't want your child to be in high school and because they are so far advanced they HAVE to take really advanced math classes simply cuz you chose to push them. Make sense?

And, noting that your child does NOT like math, again, I'd recommend going slower by including alg 1/2 regardless of what grade he does it in. make sense?





27. The other thing I wanted to know is if you have any kids in college. The reason I had been given for not using Saxon for Algebra is that it doesn't prepare them well enough for college level courses. Have you heard this or found it to be true? I would prefer to stay with Saxon since I think the "incremental approach" is helpful for my son; but I don't want to put him at a greater disadvantage than he may already be because of his dislike for the subject.



Reply from robin betz:

I have two in college right now. I have not heard that it does NOT prepare one; the only thing I DID hear was depending on what grade they are in when they are taking Geometry, get it in BEFORE the 11th grade testing PSAT and moving on into SAT /ACT etc.





28 How do you manage a child that has a lot of pride? They don't like to be taught, scolding doesn't work, lecturing doesn't work, incentives don't work to motivate them, punishment (i.e. taking things away) doesn't motivate them, physical punishment doesn't motivate them, etc. What else is left???? How do you get this child to be "on your side?"



Reply by robin betz:

I've learned a lot through the years about possible reasons behind WHY a particular child is acting a certain way. Above all, maybe we'll never know, and maybe, even if a doctor or other person labels them something, we'll find out they were way off. All I do know is I two kids of whom NOTHING seemed to work until I tried a few particular things. I will go into detail but first I'll list a few characteristics that might build my credibility and one's confidence to at least try to always start here.



I have kids who, even with the most calm environment, can be distracted by just a thought or they will begin drawing on their paper or who will still NOT be able to move forward (and are usually distracting others!) I have kids who so very extremely feel/see that there is ONE way of doing things i.e.: start at a certain place on the paper, use a particular pen or pencil, and sit in a particular chair. I have a child who will just sit there and say, ‘I can’t do it’. I can list reward after reward and you can see the desire to do it, but they are frozen! I really feel their inability, they are trapped...by what? It’s scary sometimes!



I have a child who is seemingly a perfectionist, I say seemingly because it really is not consistent, but it is present most of the time. In fact, the perfectionist part is so extreme, it's scary, and I feel as if I want to free him from this demon! But, there are times that he's lackadaisical about a particular request, so why is that? I believe that all the things that bring about security for this child are in order; I sense it, I see the results and I feel like hollering, ‘ok, what I did I do RIGHT this time! Lord, help me hone in on this so I can do it over and over again!”



I don’t know if I or any specialist will ever have the 'right' answer or antidote but I do know, in ALL of these cases, I have seen progress when I have these things in order:

- my prayer times and quiet times to really put things in God's hands, to pray for my kids by name and ask to see/feel/sense what is right/best. 'Give me the confidence Lord.' Have you looked at some suggestions from the outline; giving oneself contemplative prayer and family prayer sprinkled throughout the day.

-for the particular child, but all if you are able, (hone in on the ones who are out of balance) give them 15 minutes a day of 'eye to eye' I try to call it; which means really listening. They truly have a 'fear' if that letter’d’ is NOT written the way it should be. This fear is not rational but they are not feeling secure. They need security they are just not sure why; I'd call it anxiety. I believe with all of my heart it is mostly stemming from ME, yes me. As mother, main provider of care and stability; in my case probably my temperament that is not calm and secure with a sense of panic moving from one thing to the next always rushing and reminding that we're going to be late (cuz there is so much to do!). Or other mom's, maybe cuz they are helter skelter and don't have a routine, distracted by the phone or computer and perhaps their house is un-orderly, sometimes to a shocking state. This can wreak havoc on the child's ability to feel secure and it will have to come out somehow!

- Try to get inside the mind and heart of the child; read Brain Lock by Jeffrey M. Schwartz M.D. was an interesting book to read. It was good for me to read because I was trying other things at the same time this book was recommended to me by a person who has ALWAYS been on in evaluating me and my children. She is/was 'on' in guiding me with some of my obsessive kids too but in this case, although the book was helpful, it actually also affirmed some of the other things I was doing.



The 3 main things I recommend doing are: 1. One's own prayer life, 2. Evaluate the balance in one's home/get advice from someone else who, to you, seems balanced and be open to their evaluation, 3. 15 minutes a day of 'one on one', 'eye to eye'. It won't help to ask, 'why do you feel that way?" - they don’t know.' but 'what are you feeling?" 'You know yesterday when it was so important to you to have things you way. I know you didn't like the punishment and I know you didn't like disappointing mommy, and I know you know that sometimes you just have to do what you are told, but you didn't. I want to help you to be happy and to feel good about minding mommy, let's talk about this ok, just you and me." I stand at my child's bed who is in the top bunk, or I take him for a walk away from others so he can be on my lap, so I do mean physically 'eye to eye'.



The touch from parent to child is so important. If they are not open to it (or if you are not naturally this way!) persevere and build that ability to touch and to be close to this child; they need it more than any others! Encourage dad to do the same. Encourage dad to do the 15 min. a day especially if you are feeling taxed and can't do it.



It should be encouraging for you to know that when I've had a child like this (its been more than once) it was bitter sweet for I also saw it as a reason to force myself to give each child 15 minutes; its yet to happen, in fact, after a few weeks of doing this with the one troubling child, we see progress so I begin to forgo my commitment. I used to feel badly about this, but now I don't. I feel like, 'you know, I'm hear 24.7. Hence I'll see the red flag coming and I have; we just right back into the same routine. And, it is encouraging to know this is a ‘bump’ to move over, all the while it is a tendency this child will have into adulthood possibly.



I alert my husband; 'hey, this child needs 'eye to eye', 'one on one'. I'm telling you we often never get to any root or hear any specific 'fears', but we see progress. Simultaneously I am working on my own prayer life and the temperaments of the house. Tadah...progress regardless of completely wiping out a problem. It’s a beautiful progressive cycle instead of a vicious, out of control cycle which we, as moms, especially, are drained by!



So, you've build up this close bond with this child, it's time for school, the attitude starts, all I need to say is, 'so, child, I see you are struggling, (I put my arm around him JUST like I did the day before and the day before that, sometimes taking him into my lap), remember our last talk, remember how you told me _______, you can trust me. I need you to trust me right now, do what I ask and as soon as this assignment is complete, we'll __________, or I'll allow you to take 10 minutes to ________. (Follow through but also bring them right back to move through the next assignment).



I have NEVER had a child NOT melt at the desire to please me and to be free from their fears. They will and you will see this progress and this will feel good to all of you! Keeps this cycle going. If the child does Not comply, or at some point chooses to back slide; I would still follow through with consequences but immediately give them that attention meaning this 'eye to eye' I’m talking about is NOT conditional on their follow through and good behavior; it is atop any discipline etc. i.e.: maybe it's this , 'child, ok, this is wasting your time and mine, I need for you to come and do some chores with mommy to make up for this.' during this chore time, talk if they are open, pray, but after the 10 minutes of chores are done, try to take a few minutes (keep in mind if the 15 minutes of 'eye to eye' is consistent then at times like these, 2-5 minutes can be very satisfying. Take that time right after the discipline time and sit, 'listen, I know your choices not to obey did not bring happiness to you or to me, I believe in you, you've trusted me before, I know you can do this. common', I'll be near you and I'll be here when you succeed and get this assignment completed, ok!?" time like these will get further between.



Lastly, we use homeopathy. I believe homeopathy, constitutionally focused for these kids is a big part of our success.



Back to Brain Lock; here's how I see it. I think his ideas are great and I think they have saved lives, marriages and families; that is awesome. But I felt, from my experience, it was taking this to a certain level, I felt there is so much more, don't settle for that! and, I felt like it was a lifelong remedy of rules to follow for everyone in their life when ideally, the person would grow stronger and grow out of this pattern, only falling back into this patter occasionally. I repeat, the suggestions and information was still helpful and it was especially helpful to get into the mind of kids/ people like this.

Have you ever watched "monk'. Rent a series; even if our kids/ love done are never diagnosed with OCD, like with ADD and ADHD, whose kid are not this way sometimes! In getting into the minds of others we can better anticipate their actions, better feel compassion and empathy for their feelings thus behavior thereby providing us with a clearer sense of where to start and breaking the cycle.



I will close with this; these kids are the ones I’ve most often lost my temper with and spanked in anger instead of control; I’ve felt remorse, gone to confession and sought counseling. I was wrong to lose control but I’m human and I’ve learned. I often thank God for so many kids so I feel like a have a 2nd, 4thn ad 10 chance to prove myself! I am closer to these particular kids than I ever thought I could be to a child; this is a gift. Try to avoid my mistakes but when you fall or when you are so frustrated just remind yourself that God gave these particular children to you, these will be the kids that refine you, challenge you and enable you to enter heaven earlier than another because IF you pick up the cross and see this as a ‘job’ you didn’t plan on but God clearly entrusted to you, you’ll be able to embrace it. take care of yourself and your marriage and you will be easily see this as a challenge and specific task that God has chosen especially for you and it will feel more like an honor vs. a burden!





30. How much do your older kids help?

Reply by Robin Betz:

We believe in earnest that is it our responsibility to empower our children to be functioning members of our family, to contribute from a very early age. My 18 month old, although a rare case, puts the dishes way and most of them away in the correct place! Granted, she is NOT on the chore list but we do include her and tell her ‘we need you”! We believe much of the problems today in our culture are from idle time and the feeling of inadequacy, too much time on their hands, and the lack of belonging. Moreover, the children need to learn the skills, learn what they are good at, where they are lacking, work on some areas and also accept their strengths and weaknesses. They also need to come to understand how their actions effect others, how the timeliness of completing a chore is of value; they must feel the pain if indeed they do not follow through.



We change the chores as needed but in general, about 2 times a year. If a child HATES their chore, I tell them ‘once you have mastered it, and kept up on it for a few weeks at least, I’ll consider switching for you. Inevitably this child has been slacking cuz they dread the chore. If the chore is so gruesome to them that they continue to neglect it, I’ll replace that chore with TWO harder chores; the grass is not greener!

See number 33 for our ‘hire a maid chart’. And here is a sample of our current chore chart for summer. The oldest child at home is listed at top, Tony, moving down to our youngest child on the list age 4.

Summer Chores

Mom checks chores at lunch and after dinner.

2.00 For every daily job that is missed, 5.00 for it not getting done by the end of the day.

10.00 for not getting a weekly job done and add 2.00a day to that each day it is not done

20.00 For every monthly job that does not get done and 5.00 for each day until it complete.

Kids ages:

Tony 18, danny 16, tessa 14, evan 12, gemma 11, willy 9, eliza 7, Julian 6, warren 4, may grace 18 months

Dishes away: gem

Dishes washer Tessa

Floors: Evan

Food: tues: Gem yogurt Thurs: Gem celery and carrot sticks



Rotating laundry Sort/fold and put into bins: 3 loads rotated and 3 baskets put into baskets AND laundry person must also put away the ‘random’ basket including linens etc.

Mon: Danny Tony puts away tony and dad’s and mom’s

Tues: mom

Wed: Tessa Tess puts away w. clothes/bibs/rags into cleaning bins

Thus: Evan gemma puts away May’s clothes

Friday: Gemma

Saturday: Willy Warren puts away bath towels daily

Sunday: Eliza

Julian puts away Julian and hand towels, wash clothes and bibs



Sweeper: am: Gemma, lunch: Evan, Dinner: Danny

Dogs/play/brush and poop scoop –

mond/willy Tues/ Willy wed/gemma thur/evan frid/Dan sat/ Eliza sun/ gem and daddy



Daily, Weekly and Monthly Chores:

Tony: Daily: garbage’s, put away dad, mom and your laundry, Weekly: Mond: organize and take out recycleTues. Garb/recd down Wed match sox Thurs: sweep and mop all downstairs floors including apartment, laundry room, bathroom, hard woods Friday: Vac up, Month by the first sat: front fridge/freezer and car port with Daniel





Daniel: Daily: feed dogs, laundry away, vitamins, piano and guitar

Weekly: Mon: laundry Tues. vacuum up and stairs Wed: vac out dryer Thurs: wipe down all computers Frid. Vacuum Downstairs and organize back apartment including videos/games, dogs. Monthly by the first sat: back fridge and freezer and wipe down apartment kitchen well and car port w/ Tony



Tessa: Daily: take vitamins, pocket bathroom in a.m., dishes all day, piano and violin

Weekly: Mon. clean bins Tues: dust downstairs and organize piano/violin stuff Wed. laundry Thurs: organize pantry Frid. Big van Sat: Monthly by the first sat: clean school room (1 hour)



Evan: Daily: vitamins, laundry down, sort and start a load, floors all day and swiff when needed, put away your laundry, piano Weekly: Mon: organize snack cupboard and pantry Tues: my desk Wed: orgnanize cd’s and piano/violin stuff Thurs laundry and dogs Frid. Deck Monthly by the first sat: organize work bench and garage



Gemma: Daily: Laundry, vitamins, garbage at each meal, put dishes away all day, put Mays’ clothes, piano and violin Weekly: Mon. junk drawer Tues: match all female shoes and make yogurt wed: sort all toys in living room and organize front closet and dogs Thurs. C &c sticks Fri. laundry and match socks for 45 minutes Sun: dogs

monthly by the first Sat. Make granola and deep clean the kitchen



Willy: Daily your clothes away, vacuum living room before bed and wipe down boys bathroom at quiet time and counter after each meal, piano and violin Weekly: Mon: drawers under counter and dogs Tues: silverware drawer, dogs wed: front patio Thurs: cupboards under stove Frid. Covered porch sat: laundry monthly first sat: find all scissors, org pencils and sharpen/ pens and fill calendar with pens (at least 20) and vacuum out both dryer vents in the laundry room and under the house.



Eliza: Daily before bfast your bed, pledge of allegiance, girls bathroom, all appliances Weekly: Mon: match socks, tues: dust upstairs wed junk drawer organize Thurs: fill/organize fruit/potatoes/onions etc Frid mini van w/ Warren’s help Sat. dogs Sun: launrdy

Monthly by the first sat: clean out all bath drawers with Julian



Julian: Daily: hand towel, cloth and bibs drawers, make bed Weekly: Mond: fill holy water fonts Tues: organize and wipe our honey/peanut butter cupboard Wed: sharpen pencils in kitchen and school room Thurs: tidy coffee /tea cupboard Friday: Clean out under all beds in girl’s room and silverware drawer

Monthly: help Eliza clean out all bath drawers



Warren: make bed, put away all entry and basket of shoes before bfast, wipe down all chairs and tables after meals, put laundry away fold and put bath towels away

Weekly: mon: sort and organize all boys shoes except dads Tues: organize snack cupboard Wed: straiten books in living room Thurs:stock toilet paper, disperse, unwrap etc Friday: clean out under boys beds and help Eliza with min van

Monthly: scrub out dishwasher



Reply by Julia Fogassy:

Before we started homeschooling, all the older children already had assigned chores. Once homeschooling started, that trend continued. We had a chart on the kitchen wall that showed who-did-what-when. The chores included emptying the garbage, washing the kitchen floor, doing the dishes, cleaning up the table and counters. Sometimes the kids traded jobs if they had a schedule conflict, but they generally kept to the plan. Because we had enough children to go around, no one had to do the same job twice in one week.

Most of the time, things went well. Some children were notoriously lazy and did a poor job, but other children would come along the next day and do a superior job, so as far as the housekeeping went, things were fairly well maintained. We never really did manage to perfect everyone’s character, but at least they learned how to do housework and had the experience of being responsible for regular chores.

I recently met an older woman who was aghast at the thought of requiring children to do regular chores. In her home, she had done all the work and “let her children be children.” She was even very concerned about harming a child’s psyche if you required him to clean his own bedroom and she used her own children as an example of how successful her methods were. Her adult children are good upstanding citizens who clean their own rooms and make their own way in the world and she is sure that they would not have done as well if she had “burdened” them with household chores. When I suggested that she had a very different case because she only had two children, she replied, “Well my dear, I never thought it was a good idea to burden my children with chores that rightly belong to a housewife, and I’ve never thought it was a good idea to burden the world with more than two children.” I just smiled and nodded.



Reply by Meredith Henning: My older kids do help, our age split is 13 (girl) 10 (boy) 7 (boy) and 4 (boy so we often pair up one older with one younger for certain times of the day. I also have quite a bit of laundry help from my daughter, she does most of the folding and putting away and even takes care of any ironing that her father might need :) One of the things that I have found most helpful with the older ones is to make sure they get plenty of chat time with me throughout the day so that when I need them to help with the little list, it's not so much of a drain on them. They are also quite happy to engage in Lego or tea party play to occupy a younger one while I work one on one with someone else for a little while (usually 15-20 minutes spans).







31. How do you explain staying open to life? With such serious medical problems, we have been told that we have a 50/50 chance of them having the same complication with future children. (Even my own mom asked which one of us "was getting fixed" after the birth of my last child.) Ugh!)

Reply by robin betz:

I don’t. Period. I used to but now I don’t. I try to always come back with questions to them if I must, ‘I’m not sure what you are asking?” I’m not sure what you are saying. If I’m brought to it, ‘are you saying you would have aborted Susie if it were you?” ‘Oh, then what were you saying?” I have not had a time that I didn’t pose a question to someone, with charity and sincere awe that the person in question did not end up fumbling and realizing their comments and pointed questions were out of line, inappropriate and in most cases, they themselves, had not thought through what they were saying to me. Do your best to always speak with charity, never malice for they are ignorant of the truth and without the gifts you have. But, I must add, this charity will not come without your choosing to take time to pray and to be fed by your heavenly Father! Their comments will take you by surprise and you’ll spit out something you will regret. If you pray and admit the truth about the culture of death, although sad, you’ll be prepared and armed and ready to spread the message of life and they’ll sense it about you, see it on your face and benefit from your sincere desire to reply to their ignorance.

32. How do you approach the medical community when you have multiple kids with the same problem?

Reply by Robin Betz: IN general I remain distant. I try to spend time contemplating their position; their ignorance. I pray for them. I can feel under attack at time, even by my own family, even my own community (unfounded but true, Satan I’m sure). I do my best to remain strong spiritually and physically when going into the public eye, to the doctor etc and most of all around family who does not support/understand, (nor do they care to). If I’m strong I can sense the appropriate things to say. Sometimes with as bogged down as we get we can end up turning to almost anyone who asks and ‘sharing’. Come to find out later, these just happened to be people in our path and we should have actually, out of prudence, refrained from being completely forthcoming.

It is not phony to aim to show the medical community your joy, and rarely your sorrow. Refrain from complaining or whining to them; call me, call someone else who will understand and free yourself from a well deserves chat session about how difficult life can be with kids with special needs like this. Be prudent in what you say and when you say it to the public medical community.

33. How have you motivated your children (mine are 6, 5, and 1 and maybe one on the way) to complete their morning routines without constant reminders? My children get distracted by many things in the morning. I'd like to have all of our morning routines completed by a certain time each morning.

Reply by Robin Betz:

We eat meals as a family; we don’t eat until all chores are complete and house is tidy; period. Keep in mind ones expectations must be realistic and Mom MUST be around, aware, present and ready to guide, praise and support.

For instance, I might have a list for my kids that age and all, expect the 1 year old, are old enough to look at that list and work through it, but, if I’m on the computer or out running I’m asking for trouble, vs. if I’m in the kitchen cooking or tidying the house while my kids are also doing their chores then we are set up for success. Mom should not nag or prod but perhaps say, ‘so, have you checked your tick list? It’d be nice to have milk with that cereal today, sure hope you decide you want that and choose to get your chores completed in a timely manner!” or,

Make some sort of a list but at the same time don’t make it a burden on you; hold the kids accountable at an early age. For daily prep responsibilities like tidying house, making bed, getting dressed etc I hold steadfast to the ‘food’ thing, and of course anything else that we’d like to do that is enjoyable i.e.: we’d cancel a play date if their responsibilities were not taken care of. If not a meal then something else. If the only thing you have planned for the day is school, meals and chores, you see my point; we all have a sense of hunger and want to satisfy this. The point is, we work as a team, what YOU do make a different to the whole, we’ll all gather when the home is in order. I’d say 20-30 minutes to run through morning chores, throw a load of laundry in, make beds, do one or two random chores, and tidy the bedrooms (cuz you went to bed with a clean house the night before right?)



But if it is a random chore, daily chore etc likes ‘Tuesdays, mike sweeps the front porch’, we move on, I say little but he feels the pain. If he does not do this, I say nothing, but I charge/take money from their savings. My kids from an early age pay for almost all of their needs beyond food, shelter and bare basic clothing. But, we DO give an allowance 1 dollar a year per month starting at age 4.



. This is how we see it; you can do your chore and participate in brining order and harmony to the family or, help to hire a ‘maid’. I, as mom/leader, determine what I’ll do with that situation i.e.: I might hire a sibling to do the chore, I might hire that same child back (at a lower wageJ) to do the chore a different time, I might let the chore go knowing I have some extra cash to do with what I’d like. The fact that they feel the pain of their choice is a must. We repeat the message, ‘you are an important part of this family, we need you, and things will not run as smoothly without you. It’s like the body of Christ - what one does or does not do effects the whole.

Mom checks chores at lunch and after dinner.

2.00 For every daily job that is missed, 5.00 for it not getting done by the end of the day.

10.00 for not getting a weekly job done and add 2.00a day to that each day it is not done

20.00 For every monthly job that does not get done and 5.00 for each day until it complete.





Reply by Meredith Henning:

We like to set a timer and see who can finish their appointed task before the timer goes off. This can include things like getting dressed, making beds, brushing hair, teeth, washing faces, etc. I imagine it's mainly for the 6 and 5 year olds and perhaps they would like to create their own chore charts and be able to put on a sticker or draw a star each time they complete their tasks. I have also been known to put on some upbeat music to get things moving or completed, especially if we need to head out the door for an activity or daily Mass. Then we say special prayers of thanksgiving in the car on the way to our outing thanking our Guardian Angels for helping us with our chores (or patron Saint, etc.) Other motivators that have worked for us is to earn a story with mommy or special treat like a tea party or game of cards or board game when a certain amount of tasks have been completed.

Reply by Julia Fogassy:

I guess it would be accurate to say that we never had a morning routine. The only routine things we did were school work and chores in the afternoon and evening. Mornings were laid back because for a good many of our homeschooling years, my husband did not go to work until noon. We got up around 10 am and had a leisurely breakfast. After Dad left, we got to work on school things. Only then was it necessary to think about motivating anyone.



With two of our children I have found it necessary to stoop to bribery--just to get through reading and math lessons. The other children were either self-motivated or willing to be led, but these two were a real challenge. I used gummy bears and pennies at first. Their ability to focus was so fragile that it had to be frequently bolstered. At first, it had to be an immediate sensory reward--a gummy bear in the mouth. Then we graduated to pennies. I hung a sock on the wall above the table where they were working and each time they made a letter or number that was well formed I’d drop a penny in the sock. At the end of the week, they could spend the pennies or save them for some future purchase. As they got older (second grade) I used nickels, and eventually dimes, but the rewards got farther and farther apart. By the end of second grade we saved up coins for a month before they got to spend them. I told myself that even though bribery was less than ideal, that over time we were at least making progress by extending the gratification from immediate to a month away.



The other children were generally compliant with their work and their chores, but if there was a deadline to meet, I would sometimes encourage prompt completion of duties by promising everyone a milkshake or a doughnut. I was amazed at how fast they could move when gastronomically motivated.